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2014-07-04 Weeping Water Pump

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

While changing oil today.. noticed some 'mung' on one of the headers.. 

Looking up, a green, coolant green drip, on the bottom of the water pump.

 

Ahh, Crap - don't have time for this silliness.

 

I'm supposed to leave next Wed for Sparks, Nevada to attend the Western FJR Roundup Gig.

 

Loosened the lower cowlings, got access to the various hoses and clamps, found one that was not loose, but not tight either. 

 

Hopefully, that was it.

 

So then, ASSuming it's a water pump failure in progress, how  quickly will it fail? 

Is it a slow evolution, or catastrophic failure in the IMMEDIATE sense of the word?

 

Checking the coolant level (which I rarely do), it was at the low level. Adding just a few ounces brought it back up to the 'high' mark.. 

But I have been smelling the sweet-sour stench of coolant burning off every now and then. 

 

So then, do I ride the FJR to the FJR Western RoundUp with a possible leaking water pump or ride the Harley Davidson that has no such silly issues?

 

Really looking for Operating Experience with water pp seal failures.. are they fast and deadly or slow and sure? l

 

If I can get another 1.5k miles out of this one, I'm golden.

 

 

TIA

 

dCarver

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    #2 Brodie

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    Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:34 PM

    I ran my Yamaha Venture for several months with an occasional drip coming out of the weep hole of it's water pump. It depends on how much you see and from where. Dry it out, fill the overflow tank to the upper level, carry 50-50 premix and run it for a bit. Tomorrow would be a good day to order another water pump (and gasket) at your friendly dealer. Who knows, it may come in tuesday - though that would be cutting it short. 

     

    Brodie

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    #3 rPGoatBoy

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    Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:51 PM

    I think you'll be alright, you can pick up coolant pretty much anywhere should you need to add.  I doubt very seriously if the seal is seeping it would all of a sudden shit itself and give you a Niagara Falls scenario.  It may be a worse leak by the time you get back, but I highly doubt it'll strand you.  Hell if it were me, I'd wait to order the pump until after you get back; maybe tightening the hose clamp fixed the leak.

    '96 Royal Star with lots of VMax & other go fast(er) parts

    #4 GPRIDER

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    Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:56 PM

    Don't remember hearing of any water pump failures on this forum (or the other forum) since the 03's came out. Might have missed it, but if there was it was a very very small percentage. I'm going with a loose hose clamp. smile.png

     

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    #5 escapefjrtist

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    Posted 04 July 2014 - 10:11 PM

    Odds are in your favor Don. Typically a mechanical seal will begin to weep a little to let you know it's getting tired and needs attention. However, with mechanical items nothing is guaranteed.

     

    OTOH you've been smelling coolant for how long...

     

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    #6 NightShine

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    Posted 04 July 2014 - 10:32 PM

    I had to have my water pump rebuilt last year. Started out as a slow seepage, noticed as streaks along the lower fairing. Had the dealer order the parts and then rode up to the Reuben Run for the weekend. I would think that you should be fine just keeping an eye on it for a small march of days...
     

    #7 kaitsdad

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    Posted 04 July 2014 - 11:41 PM

    Don,  that's Honda 50/50 premix in there.  New hoses as of last November.   Hoping it was a ever so slightly loose clamp.  Or perhaps a loose housing screw?

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    #8 Fred W

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:18 AM

    Depends on what color the mung is.

     

    The water pump shaft has two seals separated by a small space and the weep hole between them (has a short drain line on it).  The inside seal is the oil seal.  The outer seal is the coolant (mechanical) seal.  If the mung is oily you have an oil seal failing.  It is just like any other rubber (neoprene) oil seal and will just continue to get slightly worse over a long time period.

     

    If the mung is coolant colored it is the mechanical seal (a far more common failure).  The mechanical seal is a spring loaded ceramic flat washer like surface that contacts a mating hard rubber seal that spins against it.  These are a common failure on all bikes that have them and will generally weep for a really long time before a full failure.  I'd feel comfortable going a few thiousand miles with one that is weeping.  Just keep an eye on the coolant level in the reservoir and top it up as needed.

     

    Now, if the mung is oily and coolant I would not wait as that means you have both a coolant and an oil seal problem and the coolant could work its way into the engine crankcase oil.  This would be a pretty rare occurrence (a perfect storm?) so probably not your situation.   Just watch out for any milky appearance in your oil sight glass.

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    #9 Brodie

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:34 AM

    Good habit to get into
    every gas stop, check the oil sight glass. You just gave us one more reason to do so. 

    Thanks. 

    Brodie
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    #10 griff

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:21 AM

    Don:  My water pump started weeping in 08 and I rode it for at least 1000 miles with this condition until one day it just puked all over the driveway.  I ordered the parts and rebuilt it myself and then IT STARTED WEEPING AGAIN.  SHIT.  However this condition went away and it has been ok since.  I don't think you can order a new pump - you have to rebuild it yourself.  So I would order the parts in anticipation of eventually rebuilding it, but just as others have said, watch it.

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    #11 08FJR4ME

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:46 AM

    Curious as to the miles on these water pump failures. I found a small drip on the floor of the garage a few years ago. After tightening the hoses it went away. Could be that simple of a fix.

     

    Good luck,

    Dave

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    #12 griff

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:55 AM

    08FJR4ME, on 05 Jul 2014 - 04:46, said:

    Curious as to the miles on these water pump failures.

    Dave

    My first pump had about 53K on it when it failed.  The current pump has about 95K on it.

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    #13 FJR Flyer

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 06:30 AM

    Three years back at the FJ Spring Rally. My pump started dripping at lunch in Little Switzerland after riding the Diamondback. Slow drip. Got back to the campground in Boone and it was pissing. Spent the next morning pulling the pump, disassembling it on a picnic bench, cleaning it up and getting it back together. (With the essential help of a couple guys with more skill than I have.) There was some corrosion around the seal. Fix held and has held for over three years and 30+k miles. Online parts diagram was key.

    I had about 47k miles on the bike at the time.

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    #14 Bounce

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:17 AM

    Never had it on my FJR but did have one puke its guts out on a trip on my GL1200. What a PITA to happen when on a trip. Ever after that I made sure I always used the proper coolant and, if not pre-mixed, then mixed with only distilled water (and only added distilled water when topping off the coolant overflow tank).

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    #15 dcarver

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    Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:51 PM

    Almost home from a 200 plus mile day in plus 100 F weather. Will check it then. Since it was so hot thought I'd run the piss outta of it to see what happens......

    Come to think of it, I have a spare pp sitting on the 06 engine.... maybe I'll yank it and carry it for spare. 

    Looks like to remove the pp, the entire exhaust and radiator have to come off?

    Oh, the color is pretty, fresh green. 
      Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
      I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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      #16 dcarver

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      Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:11 PM

      No drips or leaks after inspecting when back home.

       

      But, a pix shows some nasty-ass splooge from the weep-hole...

       

      Not liquid, more of a 'gooey' consistency. 

       

      Kind of like a really good nose snot. bad.gif  

       

      I'm now wondering if it was a mistake to 'spin' this engine to perform a compression test after it had sat for over 8 months, dry, on a concrete floor. 

      It never occurred to me to provide liquid for the water pp prior to spinning to engine to determine compression. 

       

      Will post up pix 2morrow. Tonight, off to sleep.

        Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
        I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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        #17 rPGoatBoy

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        Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:37 PM

        dcarver, on 05 Jul 2014 - 20:11, said:

        No drips or leaks after inspecting when back home.

         

        But, a pix shows some nasty-ass splooge from the weep-hole...

         

        Not liquid, more of a 'gooey' consistency. 

         

        Kind of like a really good nose snot. bad.gif  

         

        I'm now wondering if it was a mistake to 'spin' this engine to perform a compression test after it had sat for over 8 months, dry, on a concrete floor. 

        It never occurred to me to provide liquid for the water pp prior to spinning to engine to determine compression. 

         

        Will post up pix 2morrow. Tonight, off to sleep.

         

        Highly doubt it, stop thinking so much ;-)

        '96 Royal Star with lots of VMax & other go fast(er) parts

        #18 FJR Flyer

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        Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:49 AM

        Pump comes out fairly easily. Have to pull the side fairing. 
        Chris P. IBA#37903
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        #19 karstenp

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        Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:32 AM

        I had a water pump fail at about 45,000 miles.  I rebuilt the pump and have had no problems for the past 50,000 miles.  As already stated here, usually the pumps will leak for some time before complete failure.  In my case the leak started just before a LD rally and I was able to ride about 2000 miles without a problem.  However, you never really know for sure how long a "slow drip/seepage" will remain a "slow drip".

         

        Removing the water pump is not difficult.  No need to remove radiator or exhaust pipes...just the side lower fairing as identified by FJR Flyer.  If I had a spare around, and the time, I would replace it so as to have one less thing on your mind during the ride. 

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        #20 beemerdons

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        Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:33 AM

        rPGoatBoy, on 05 Jul 2014 - 21:37, said:

         

        dcarver, on 05 Jul 2014 - 20:11, said:

        No drips or leaks after inspecting when back home.

         

        But, a pix shows some nasty-ass splooge from the weep-hole...

         

        Not liquid, more of a 'gooey' consistency. 

         

        Kind of like a really good nose snot. bad.gif  

         

        I'm now wondering if it was a mistake to 'spin' this engine to perform a compression test after it had sat for over 8 months, dry, on a concrete floor. 

        It never occurred to me to provide liquid for the water pp prior to spinning to engine to determine compression. 

         

        Will post up pix 2morrow. Tonight, off to sleep.

         

        Highly doubt it, stop thinking so much ;-)

         

        10522680_755848297805651_190154033551902

        Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:14 AM

        Here's some pix..
         
        1.jpg
        2.jpg
        3.jpg
        4.jpg
        5.jpg

         

        What I don't recall is the weep hole location, top or bottom? Guess I could go out and look, but it's hot outside and I'm lazy.

          Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
          I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
          Posted Image

          Well then, forced into the humility of examining the kRusTyKrZy8 OE (original engine!) 
           
          ..HA! There is no weep hole in this high-tech-fangdangled-oil-cooler-Thingie!
           
          6.jpg
          7.jpg
          8.jpg
          9.jpg
          10.jpg
          11.jpg
          12.jpg

           

          ..and look how wonderful this oil looks... anyone want to buy this fine engine? no.gif 
          13.jpg

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