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Master Yoda Riding Position

 

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#1 fossilrider

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 01:33 PM

I'm in love again. After reading the MYRP article on the BMW website, I practiced at home this sitting position while at my computer. This morning I took off the risers and Koubalinks, the bike is back to stock. Just returned from a 3.5 hour non-stop run and I'm smiling. The problem wasn't the bike it was me . Although I had to remind myself several times during the ride, pivot at the hips, arch the back, relax the arms, I can say the bike feels like a different animal. It definitely take practice and will honestly take some time before it's completely natural to me but the difference is dramatic. I'm not sure if it will help others but it definitely made my day more enjoyable.

FYI, I'm 59 years old, 5'6" tall and weigh 160lbs.

I've attached the link to the MYRP article below for any interested in reading.

Take care and enjoy!

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#2 mdisher

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 02:15 PM

Yes

+1 

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#3 pickax

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 05:37 AM

Thanks for that, interesting reading. I wont get rid of any mechanical ergo improvements, but I think all the IBA folks know physical conditioning is what keeps them "in the zone". This separates them from us mere mortals. 

#4 chornbe

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    Posted 11 October 2006 - 01:10 PM

    QUOTE(fossilrider @ Oct 8 2006, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I've attached the link to the MYRP article below for any interested in reading.

    Take care and enjoy!

    http://bmwrt.com/ubb...C...0560&page=0


    Ya know... lots of good information in that article. But until THAT knuckleHEAD LEARNS just HOW TO type a MESSAGE and FORMAT his sentences in a SOMEWHAT READABLE manner, I'm going to CONTINUE TO HAVE a HEAD ACHE just trying TO GET THROUGH his POST.

    Jeezuz, I think my brain is bleeding. 

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    #5 Bull

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    Posted 11 October 2006 - 07:02 PM

    [/quote]

    Ya know... lots of good information in that article. But until THAT knuckleHEAD LEARNS just HOW TO type a MESSAGE and FORMAT his sentences in a SOMEWHAT READABLE manner, I'm going to CONTINUE TO HAVE a HEAD ACHE just trying TO GET THROUGH his POST.

    Jeezuz, I think my brain is bleeding.
    [/quote]


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    #6 818Guy

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    Posted 12 November 2006 - 07:28 PM

    I'd agree the "method" of writing was a bit lacking but I did find the information helpful.

    My right shoulder certainly appreciates the article (constant pain while riding - even worse afterward). I realized that I had almost no weight on my feet and all of my weight on my wrists/arms/shoulders.

    Still teaching myself but good points to make you aware of your riding position. 

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    #7 Mogan

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    Posted 13 November 2006 - 04:14 PM

    I recently finished an 8k mile trip with average travel days at 600 miles. What was my trick? Physical conditioning? (no) Bike mods? (no)

    Every other day, get a first class massage and hot tub with a PYT. 

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    #8 6mmbr

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    Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:29 PM

    jeeeezzz 

    How am I supposed to read this thread with an avatar like that?

    Riding position? yeah that's what I'm thinkin 'bout

    Is it warm in here? 

    #9 bikerskier

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    Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:08 PM

    6mmbr. Focus, man, focus,,,,,

    After almost 40 yrs of riding, most in the dirt, this yoda stuff is a wake up. I now realize that the days I was fastest in the dirt were the days that I dropped my elbows and got on the balls of my feet. Ever since first reading about it several months ago, I have tried to relax and re learn how to ride again. What an amazing difference to both my body not tiring and my cornering skills getting smoother and faster. 
    Now that the weather here in the NW is so crappy, I am going to miss the new learning curve I was working on. 
    A lot of parallels to Keith Codes book "A Twist of the Wrist" in riding position.

    I'm a believer! 
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    #10 650cent

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    Posted 13 November 2006 - 10:07 PM

    Dick Frantz is a member here. His sig. says he owns an '05 FJR. Could not find if he has posted this info over here or not. Good stuff though, it seems like I always find myself with straight arms and its not good for cornering or comfort. Something to work on.

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    #11 Sherman

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    Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:57 AM

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    I have taken the liberty to edit Mr. Frantz's original text. I hope not to offend Mr. Frantz and if this does I will remove it immediately.

    [You sit on top of a sport bike. You sit within a K1200RS. Sport bikes require getting weight off your butt so the rider can slide his/her butt inside corners to affect a different cg. Consequently sport bikes induce weight on the handle bars. Someone sitting on a K1200RS will note some ergonomic differences, and fall toward, positioning their body as if they were riding a sport bike. They probably also carry forward certain muscle memories developed, from other seating positions. 

    People have learned to sit upright. It is not a function for which the human body was designed, and continued practice causes damage. Automobiles promulgate the poor seated position. Only lately have they applied several things like lumbar support to keep that position from killing the user. Most motorcycles continue the promulgation to one degree or another. They emulate "sit upright," (so much so that the term UJM (universal Japanese motorcycle) was partially defined by a riding position called - sit up and beg, like a puppy. This position became a mental norm. We think that's how a motorcycle is ridden. 

    The important thing to remember is you learned to do it that way, and you can learn something else. The largest, developed, muscle memory is the angle between torso and thighs. This is controlled by the largest muscles involved in riding. Southeast Asian peoples go about teaching their kids to squat, and that brings on an entirely different thigh/torso relationship. That posture is much more common across all of Asia. Some things can be difficult to overcome for some folks when they have become habits rather than cognizant, controlled responses. A great example is about leaning motorcycles in corners.

    The human develops a sense of danger when leaning any farther than when they stand up. Danger signals are sent when lean angle extends much beyond the angle the neck can be bent and still keep the eyes level (20 to 30 degrees). It is our response to body signals that can make up our "sense" of our comfort levels. Those things can change when we control them, rather than the other way round. The K1200RS was designed to promote a canted forward riding position. This was done on purpose by BMW. They knew it was required to get the K1200RS performing to the desired levels, and to keep the rider comfortable for long periods of time, in the regimes where the bike was intended to be most often used (i.e. not riding on city streets). It all starts with a low seating position -- not a high position like a sport bike.

    BMW then set out to discover what else needed to be done: add comfort to this position and provide a supporting airflow; support the position by moving the pegs downward while still allowing good ground clearance for cornering; reduce effort to maintain the position by moving them forward to change the support vector. This removes the need to place any weight on the handle bars. Do so if you wish, but you'll pay the price in comfort. You'll also find that you make the bike feel dull and unresponsive, when compared to properly distributing your weight about the bike. Properly is appropriate here in light of gaining the performance qualities BMW built into the bike. Perhaps the motorcycle magazines don't find the riding qualities we owners do when they test the K1200RS: they are riding it differently than it was designed to be ridden. 

    The keynotes to the riding position are:
    1. Bend at the hips, not at the waist. 
    2. Maintain a slight arch to the back, not allowing it to curve. 
    3. Move the butt aft so the weight is over your feet. 
    4. Using your thigh muscles to support your weight.

    The goal is to distribute all your weight over your butt and feet – not on your hands.


    Move fore and aft on the seat to make all those things happen. Except for the hip bend, they are not absolutes, but rather ranges. Move about until you can see all of them are happening to some extent with no weight being placed on the handlebars. Do this when the bike is stationary. Take the time to sit on the parked bike. Practice - one must teach their own body. You’ll notice that all good training is done by abstract exercises, not just running off to the playing field and doing what you heard. Learn to press down with the feet. Then, when riding, check that's what you are actually doing. 

    You should be able to lift your butt off the seat at a millisecond’s notice: as when knowingly approaching a severe bump in the road. Learn to bend at the hips. Do it both ways, and show yourself that you can operate the body differently. Be willing to touch that gas tank. Some people are incredibly fearful of touching a gas tank -- it's almost laughable. If you fear scratching the tank, get some clear tank protectors. Better to think "the gas tank is my friend." it will be some day when you are six hundred miles into your ride and still two hundred miles from your destination. 

    Your body is not yet trained to operate that way. Flap your elbows like a chicken to relax your arms occasionally. Prove you have your weight supported, mostly by your feet and butt. Even after 25,000 miles on an RS, I end up leaning onto the bars and need to readjust my position. Many people will need to change the riding position they use for riding on the K1200RS. Because "sit up" is so common in our lives, it can come to seem we are not operating the body, even to just sit. But, sit on a wooden stool for six hours and feel what you encounter. 

    The mind controls the body in healthy people. Take the time to sit on the stationary bike when you are learning. Flex, tighten, relax, and move about across a small but definite range of positions on the bike. Without moving, flex all your body muscles, in order, from the feet toward the hands and head. Feel what that feels like when you relax each muscle, and are still holding the proper riding position. close your eyes and feel it. Not all the muscles are fully relaxed. You are using some of them. How? How much? Why? Then, when you've done that for all the body's muscles, flex them all, and relax and feel it over all. 
    Even go so far as to stand back 10 feet and look at yourself if you can. Attempt to maintain that position, within reason, for as long in your ride as you can. When you are tire, stop. get off the bike and bend, stretch, and flex all your muscles. Walk until you feel normal, and then get back on the bike in the proper position. Repeat. You'll find you ride longer and longer, and comfort grows and grows. Eventually, it will seem normal. 

    If you notice tightness or pain, stop. You are compensating for a muscle that has already become tired. You need to develop those muscles. Right then, it will be hard to find that muscle. The next time you start riding; do a better job of finding what muscles you really need to use to hold that position. Begin by riding in a relaxed environment so you can pay attention to your muscles. Continue to adjust your weight distribution via the elbow flapping, weight transfer between feet and butt, and neck twisting. I promise that if you are doing this correctly your riding pains will disappear. 
    Even Master Yoda gets tired during a 14 hour riding day, and sometimes during just a six hour riding day. Build up your thigh muscles. Let them do the work. Even with bad knees and a bad back I can ride this lovely performing machine from sunrise to long past sunset.

    Blessings to you all, Dick Frantz So. Cal.] 

    #12 blueman

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    Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:24 AM

    Gretat info saved it on my FAVORITES to remind my self. I have only been riding for 40 years and am still finding my self falling into bad riding habits. Is there any information out there on the proper riding positions for a passanger and two up riding?? 

    #13 fossilrider

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    Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:45 AM

    I did not see much discussion on two up riding but there was a pic on page 6

    http://bmwsporttouri.../0/fpart/6/vc/1

    Enjoy the pic 6mmbr. 
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    #14 NetCat

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    Posted 14 November 2006 - 01:09 PM

    Yoda riding position really helped me with the wrist problem but after a 4 day 1500 mile ride I have a new issue. My back is really jacked up 2 weeks later. I guess I need to hit the gym smile.gif

    #15 chornbe

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      Posted 14 November 2006 - 02:55 PM

      Curious... anyone who thinks this "master yoda" riding position is something new or unknown, have you ridden any kind of sport bike for more than 10 minutes? Not trying to sound insulting, seriously curious about the experiences. Anyone coming directly from, say a standard or tourer, or especially a cruiser, will find any lean-over seating to be a real problem with lots of physical problems stemming from it.

      Any bike (or chair) that leans you forward will hurt you until you learn to adjust to it, and figure out that you should be using your legs, glutes and abs to maintain your position, and should not be putting any weight on your arms (thus leading to elbow and wrist problems, and exacerbating carpal tunnel syndrome where present). 

      I went from standards to cruiser to sport bikes to the FJR, and found coming from the sport bike to the FJR to be the perfect compromise between lean-over seating with some level of relaxed ergos. 

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      #16 beerme

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      Posted 14 November 2006 - 03:03 PM

      QUOTE(chornbe @ Nov 14 2006, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
      Curious... anyone who thinks this "master yoda" riding position is something new or unknown, have you ridden any kind of sport bike for more than 10 minutes? Not trying to sound insulting, seriously curious about the experiences.


      It was new & unknown to me until fairly recently. When I got back from my FJR's maiden voyage to Boise, I commented on a message board that I found myself putting a lot of weight on my forearms. Then an acquaintance showed me the MYRP link, and voila, no more sore wrists or shoulders. I'm just saying that the MYRP doesn't necessarily come naturally to everybody. As in my case (and many others from the sound of it), it had to be learned and practiced. 

      #17 chornbe

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        Posted 14 November 2006 - 03:19 PM

        QUOTE(beerme @ Nov 14 2006, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        QUOTE(chornbe @ Nov 14 2006, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        Curious... anyone who thinks this "master yoda" riding position is something new or unknown, have you ridden any kind of sport bike for more than 10 minutes? Not trying to sound insulting, seriously curious about the experiences.


        It was new & unknown to me until fairly recently. When I got back from my FJR's maiden voyage to Boise, I commented on a message board that I found myself putting a lot of weight on my forearms. Then an acquaintance showed me the MYRP link, and voila, no more sore wrists or shoulders. I'm just saying that the MYRP doesn't necessarily come naturally to everybody. As in my case (and many others from the sound of it), it had to be learned and practiced.


        Yeah, I should have worded that differently... sounds way more abrupt than I meant it. I only meant to say that the lean-over seating is a fairly well known issue and there is a learned(able) technique to it that sport bike enthusiasts have been going on about for years. I never really bought into it until trying to do several-hundred-mile days on a sport bike. It only takes one of them for you to reconsider riding positions smile.gif

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        #18 818Guy

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        Posted 14 November 2006 - 05:46 PM

        QUOTE(chornbe @ Nov 14 2006, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        Curious... anyone who thinks this "master yoda" riding position is something new or unknown, have you ridden any kind of sport bike for more than 10 minutes? Not trying to sound insulting, seriously curious about the experiences. Anyone coming directly from, say a standard or tourer, or especially a cruiser, will find any lean-over seating to be a real problem with lots of physical problems stemming from it.

        Any bike (or chair) that leans you forward will hurt you until you learn to adjust to it, and figure out that you should be using your legs, glutes and abs to maintain your position, and should not be putting any weight on your arms (thus leading to elbow and wrist problems, and exacerbating carpal tunnel syndrome where present). 

        I went from standards to cruiser to sport bikes to the FJR, and found coming from the sport bike to the FJR to be the perfect compromise between lean-over seating with some level of relaxed ergos.



        Years ago (in my 20's) I had a 600 Ninja. Didn't think anything of "comfort."

        Came from a custom chopper (Big Bear Choppers) to the FJR this past summer.

        This was a HUGE difference for me. Really laid back "cruiser" to the FJR.

        I will agree, I was not expecting the difference in riding style needed until after the "master yoda" article. 
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        #19 Fencer

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        Posted 14 November 2006 - 06:43 PM

        QUOTE(chornbe @ Nov 14 2006, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        ..., and found coming from the sport bike to the FJR to be the perfect compromise between lean-over seating with some level of relaxed ergos.


        I agree. I did a few 3-400 mile days on my Katana (although its not a tank hugging Ninja) No prob. I find the FJR comfy and don't find the ergo probs most complain about. But that could be that Im 6'2 with long arms and legs.

        The article seems like a natural riding position to me, as I was doing most of this pre read. 
           
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        #20 bikerskier

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        Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:02 PM

        QUOTE(chornbe @ Nov 14 2006, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        QUOTE(beerme @ Nov 14 2006, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

        QUOTE(chornbe @ Nov 14 2006, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        Curious... anyone who thinks this "master yoda" riding position is something new or unknown, have you ridden any kind of sport bike for more than 10 minutes? Not trying to sound insulting, seriously curious about the experiences.


        It was new & unknown to me until fairly recently. When I got back from my FJR's maiden voyage to Boise, I commented on a message board that I found myself putting a lot of weight on my forearms. Then an acquaintance showed me the MYRP link, and voila, no more sore wrists or shoulders. I'm just saying that the MYRP doesn't necessarily come naturally to everybody. As in my case (and many others from the sound of it), it had to be learned and practiced.


        Yeah, I should have worded that differently... sounds way more abrupt than I meant it. I only meant to say that the lean-over seating is a fairly well known issue and there is a learned(able) technique to it that sport bike enthusiasts have been going on about for years. I never really bought into it until trying to do several-hundred-mile days on a sport bike. It only takes one of them for you to reconsider riding positions smile.gif


        More to this than just "lean- over seating"! It is allowing your elbows to drop and relax and level off your forearms. It is feeling the pegs with your feet. No offence taken with your comment but many of us have ridden a lot of different bikes (mine have included the VFR, Hayabusa, Ninja, etc) and still are happy to learn and re learn better ways to have more fun and tire less. 
        PS: In my 36 years of marriage I've found it's better to ask forgiveness than permission, your circumstances may dictate otherwise!

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        Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:21 PM

        QUOTE(bikerskier @ Nov 15 2006, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        More to this than just "lean- over seating"! It is allowing your elbows to drop and relax and level off your forearms. It is feeling the pegs with your feet. No offence taken with your comment but many of us have ridden a lot of different bikes (mine have included the VFR, Hayabusa, Ninja, etc) and still are happy to learn and re learn better ways to have more fun and tire less.
        To me, this is the classic America v/s the World concept -- there was a time when (pretty much) only American bikes had big h/bars (often called "western bars"). In the early days of foreign bikes, the low bars were removed and higher/wider bars installed by the importer/dealer when the bikes got here. 
        For the fwd/lo-bar riding position to be fully functional, one needs to ride with verve and elan -- and, without a barn-door windscreen. The early FJR windscreen in the down position will allow enough air to spill over (at good speed) to help support a big-guy. This kind of riding position is at the heart of sport riding but is anathema to most tourers. 
        Sport-Touring -- a contradiction in terms.....?? ohmy.gif unsure.gif wink.gif
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        #22 painman

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        Posted 16 November 2006 - 07:38 AM

        Ya mean I can't ride Jesse James hunch back style any more? Coming from a HD cruiser with forward controls to the FJR was a WAKEUP call for sure. Yes the article did make me think on the positioning of the bod in relation to the bike more. And yes it does make sense. And with the condition of my bod, I need all the help I can get. One thing I have learned here is while practicing this on the road, it not only helps to keep me even more aware of what I am doing on the bike, but what the bike is doing. This is good. Yes, master, I have begun the journey to oneness.....PM. <>< biggrin.gif

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        #23 Sherman

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        Posted 16 November 2006 - 02:26 PM

        I would like to hear some of our experienced Iron Butt-Heads to post their thoughts on this topic.
        I think it is more about Pilates' core stabilization. An arched back is just as harmful as a slouched back, and probably more so since those muscles are less developed. Yoda's arching of the back may just be to offset the normal poor posture. 
        The ideal would be to stabilize your core via sphincter/ab tension, and continue to focus on proper alignment with the correct amount of tension. Plus, using the legs as springs to get some weight off the saddle reduces un-sprung weight - like a jockey does on a horse. This is good for your back and good for the bike's handling.

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        This thread could devolve into a health thread just like the CBRxx forum's 7 pounds = 1 HP. 

        #24 freshmeat

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        Posted 19 November 2006 - 08:52 PM

        OK - so I read it, I think I'm doin' it right but --

        Anyone got a link to some pictures of good / bad versions of the MYRP ??


        thx 
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        #25 818Guy

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        Posted 21 November 2006 - 04:27 AM

        page 7: http://bmwsporttouri.../0/fpart/7/vc/1

        scroll down... 
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        #26 painman

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        Posted 21 November 2006 - 07:00 AM

        QUOTE(818Guy @ Nov 21 2006, 05:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

        Good one 818Guy, the photo shop does show the alignment. When I use to do the LD driving with the 18 wheeler, one thing drivers were taught was keeping the correct posture for pain relief. An exercise for this is to use this same posture indicated and while seated with the weight off the wheel(bars), suck the stomach in and move the hips forward, then relax. This helps strengthen the stomach and back muscles and keep the posture correct. It does work. PM. <>< biggrin.gif

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        #27 Sherman

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        Posted 21 November 2006 - 09:02 AM

        Here is a better view of the correct posture - though in a different venue.



        Enjoy! 

        #28 818Guy

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        Posted 21 November 2006 - 04:15 PM

        LOL !!!

        Man, I can't stop laughing at that one.

        Post of the year IMO! 
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        #29 Mark G

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        Posted 21 November 2006 - 05:27 PM

        QUOTE(Bruce @ Nov 21 2006, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        Here is a better view of the correct posture - though in a different venue.



        Enjoy!


        Ah, that's very helpful to see without bulky riding clothes, but which RAM ball mount(s) do you use to hold the organ? 

        #30 Whip

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        Posted 24 November 2006 - 06:42 PM

        QUOTE(Bruce @ Nov 14 2006, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        I have taken the liberty to edit Mr. Frantz's original text. I hope not to offend Mr. Frantz and if this does I will remove it immediately.

        [You sit on top of a sport bike. You sit within a K1200RS. Sport bikes require getting weight off your butt so the rider can slide his/her butt inside corners to affect a different cg. Consequently sport bikes induce weight on the handle bars. Someone sitting on a K1200RS will note some ergonomic differences, and fall toward, positioning their body as if they were riding a sport bike. They probably also carry forward certain muscle memories developed, from other seating positions. 

        People have learned to sit upright. It is not a function for which the human body was designed, and continued practice causes damage. Automobiles promulgate the poor seated position. Only lately have they applied several things like lumbar support to keep that position from killing the user. Most motorcycles continue the promulgation to one degree or another. They emulate "sit upright," (so much so that the term UJM (universal Japanese motorcycle) was partially defined by a riding position called - sit up and beg, like a puppy. This position became a mental norm. We think that's how a motorcycle is ridden. 

        The important thing to remember is you learned to do it that way, and you can learn something else. The largest, developed, muscle memory is the angle between torso and thighs. This is controlled by the largest muscles involved in riding. Southeast Asian peoples go about teaching their kids to squat, and that brings on an entirely different thigh/torso relationship. That posture is much more common across all of Asia. Some things can be difficult to overcome for some folks when they have become habits rather than cognizant, controlled responses. A great example is about leaning motorcycles in corners.

        The human develops a sense of danger when leaning any farther than when they stand up. Danger signals are sent when lean angle extends much beyond the angle the neck can be bent and still keep the eyes level (20 to 30 degrees). It is our response to body signals that can make up our "sense" of our comfort levels. Those things can change when we control them, rather than the other way round. The K1200RS was designed to promote a canted forward riding position. This was done on purpose by BMW. They knew it was required to get the K1200RS performing to the desired levels, and to keep the rider comfortable for long periods of time, in the regimes where the bike was intended to be most often used (i.e. not riding on city streets). It all starts with a low seating position -- not a high position like a sport bike.

        BMW then set out to discover what else needed to be done: add comfort to this position and provide a supporting airflow; support the position by moving the pegs downward while still allowing good ground clearance for cornering; reduce effort to maintain the position by moving them forward to change the support vector. This removes the need to place any weight on the handle bars. Do so if you wish, but you'll pay the price in comfort. You'll also find that you make the bike feel dull and unresponsive, when compared to properly distributing your weight about the bike. Properly is appropriate here in light of gaining the performance qualities BMW built into the bike. Perhaps the motorcycle magazines don't find the riding qualities we owners do when they test the K1200RS: they are riding it differently than it was designed to be ridden. 

        The keynotes to the riding position are:
        1. Bend at the hips, not at the waist. 
        2. Maintain a slight arch to the back, not allowing it to curve. 
        3. Move the butt aft so the weight is over your feet. 
        4. Using your thigh muscles to support your weight.

        The goal is to distribute all your weight over your butt and feet – not on your hands.


        Move fore and aft on the seat to make all those things happen. Except for the hip bend, they are not absolutes, but rather ranges. Move about until you can see all of them are happening to some extent with no weight being placed on the handlebars. Do this when the bike is stationary. Take the time to sit on the parked bike. Practice - one must teach their own body. You’ll notice that all good training is done by abstract exercises, not just running off to the playing field and doing what you heard. Learn to press down with the feet. Then, when riding, check that's what you are actually doing. 

        You should be able to lift your butt off the seat at a millisecond’s notice: as when knowingly approaching a severe bump in the road. Learn to bend at the hips. Do it both ways, and show yourself that you can operate the body differently. Be willing to touch that gas tank. Some people are incredibly fearful of touching a gas tank -- it's almost laughable. If you fear scratching the tank, get some clear tank protectors. Better to think "the gas tank is my friend." it will be some day when you are six hundred miles into your ride and still two hundred miles from your destination. 

        Your body is not yet trained to operate that way. Flap your elbows like a chicken to relax your arms occasionally. Prove you have your weight supported, mostly by your feet and butt. Even after 25,000 miles on an RS, I end up leaning onto the bars and need to readjust my position. Many people will need to change the riding position they use for riding on the K1200RS. Because "sit up" is so common in our lives, it can come to seem we are not operating the body, even to just sit. But, sit on a wooden stool for six hours and feel what you encounter. 

        The mind controls the body in healthy people. Take the time to sit on the stationary bike when you are learning. Flex, tighten, relax, and move about across a small but definite range of positions on the bike. Without moving, flex all your body muscles, in order, from the feet toward the hands and head. Feel what that feels like when you relax each muscle, and are still holding the proper riding position. close your eyes and feel it. Not all the muscles are fully relaxed. You are using some of them. How? How much? Why? Then, when you've done that for all the body's muscles, flex them all, and relax and feel it over all. 
        Even go so far as to stand back 10 feet and look at yourself if you can. Attempt to maintain that position, within reason, for as long in your ride as you can. When you are tire, stop. get off the bike and bend, stretch, and flex all your muscles. Walk until you feel normal, and then get back on the bike in the proper position. Repeat. You'll find you ride longer and longer, and comfort grows and grows. Eventually, it will seem normal. 

        If you notice tightness or pain, stop. You are compensating for something that has already become tired. You need to develop the muscles that you tired out. Right then, it will be had to find that muscle. The next time you start riding; do a better job of finding what muscles you really need to use to hold that position. Begin by riding in a relaxed environment so you can pay attention to your muscles. Continue to adjust your weight distribution via the elbow flapping, weight transfer between feet and butt, and neck twisting. I promise that if you are doing this correctly your riding pains will disappear. 
        Even Master Yoda gets tired during a 14 hour riding day, and sometimes during just a six hour riding day. Build up your thigh muscles. Let them do the work. Even with bad knees and a bad back I can ride this lovely performing machine from sunrise to long past sunset.

        Blessings to you all, Dick Frantz so cal]




        Bruce

        I know Master Yoda......Master Yoda is a friend of mine..........yer...your no Master Yoda....

        Just kiddin with ya Bruce. I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

        Master Yoda...........Dick is a friend of mine...a very good friend....a wonderful man that writes about all kinds of things....one of the biggest hearts you'll ever know....when superbike racing was invented, he raced in the first event.

        A couple pix of the man himself.

        He's on the far right...I'm in middle and "Phillyflash" is on the left.....Highway 141...at the Plumes. In June of 06



        Our bikes getting ready for lift off.


        September 06 in Torrey UT....giving us a little love before we go ridin...


        Some day I hope ya'll get to meet the man.

        A great rider and an even better friend.

        Whip 
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        www.whip.smugmug.com

        #31 keithaba

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        Posted 24 November 2006 - 07:29 PM

        I like that picture in the desert. Only thing better than an FJR... 4 FJRs!!!!!!!

        Been practicing this riding position. Only trouble I have is during breaking. I find I'm either really squeezing my legs around the tank or putting a lot of weight on my handlebars. 
        2007 FJR (Farkled to the max)
        2007 FZ1 (damn that things fast)

        #32 Whip

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        Posted 24 November 2006 - 08:11 PM

        QUOTE(keithaba @ Nov 24 2006, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        I like that picture in the desert. Only thing better than an FJR... 4 FJRs!!!!!!!

        Been practicing this riding position. Only trouble I have is during breaking. I find I'm either really squeezing my legs around the tank or putting a lot of weight on my handlebars.


        Put more wait on the pegs during braking....by doing this you should be able to distribute the wait to more contact points....and keep the wait lower in the bike.

        Whip 
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        #33 87Doodle

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        Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:59 PM

        QUOTE(fossilrider @ Oct 8 2006, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        I'm in love again. After reading the MYRP article on the BMW website, I practiced at home this sitting position while at my computer. This morning I took off the risers and Koubalinks, the bike is back to stock. Just returned from a 3.5 hour non-stop run and I'm smiling. The problem wasn't the bike it was me . Although I had to remind myself several times during the ride, pivot at the hips, arch the back, relax the arms, I can say the bike feels like a different animal. It definitely take practice and will honestly take some time before it's completely natural to me but the difference is dramatic. I'm not sure if it will help others but it definitely made my day more enjoyable.

        FYI, I'm 59 years old, 5'6" tall and weigh 160lbs.

        I've attached the link to the MYRP article below for any interested in reading.

        Take care and enjoy!

        http://bmwrt.com/ubb...C...0560&page=0





        Hey....Thanks ....I 'm still reading the page you linked to but It's really informative!

         

        #34 ELP_JC

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        Posted 22 July 2007 - 10:31 PM

        Just a quick comment. As an '03 K1200RS owner for 5 years, I can tell you my '07 FJR is basically identical to the KRS ergonomically speaking, in case you were wondering. 
        And yes, you have to be in some sort of shape to ride any sport/sport-touring bike any distance; one more reason to hit the gym. If you have a big belly, you won't be able to bend at the hips on such bikes, since your belly would hit the tank... and scratch it < he he>. Bending at the hips keeps your back basically straight, and helps to keep your shoulders in the right position (aligned with your back, not forward). And yes, even after 5 years, sometimes I need to remind myself of that... or shoulder pain does. 
        As a final comment, after adopting the MYRP, I could ride longer on the BMW than the GL1800. But try one at a dealership, and the Wing feels more comfortable hands down. Later gang.
        JC 

        #35 Fr1ppe

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        Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:01 AM

        Hi guys!

        As a FJR-newbie I would really like to have a picture that describes the MYRP (even if the naked pianoguy was funny). The old links has long died I'm afraid.. 
        FJR 1300 -2007

        #36 Fred W

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        Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:51 AM

        Here's a link to the original post (it's still there) but no pictures.

         

        To view my "broken" Photobucket images:    Firefox fix  Chrome fix

        #37 Pat C

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        Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:54 PM

        Can someone explain to what the difference is bending at the waist not the hips? 
        Pat C.

        #38 kolonial72

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        Posted 25 May 2009 - 05:51 PM

        QUOTE (Pat C @ May 25 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
        Can someone explain to what the difference is bending at the waist not the hips?


        I'll give it a shot.

        When you bend at the hips, your spine remain straight(er). When you bend at the waist, your lower back, or lumbar, is curved. This can put stress on your spine and can make it difficult to support your weight without putting some of that weight on your wrists and shoulders.

        It's really more of a fold at the hip joint you want. Ever tried yoga? It helps, though the position can be tough to hold for long periods of time for those of us who have not done it much. 
        I love my horse, but my bike listens better.

        #39 fossilrider

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        Posted 02 June 2009 - 12:30 PM

        There are pics in this article written by the same person who wrote on MYRP. Hope this helps.

        Riding Position MYRP
        Life is a journey, it's just better on two wheels!

        #40 BwanaDik

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        Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:42 PM

        Good Info But I'M Having a Really HARD Time reading The Whole Thing

        Phew, could barely make It Past The FIRST Few paragraphs. 

        dropfinal.gifsfo08.gifsfo09.gifSWFOG2010.gifswfog-twitter-60px.jpgSWFOG2014_zps29cf405c.jpg BB1500 SS1000 IBA#39439

        happyPuppy

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        Posted 02 June 2009 - 02:25 PM

        Sherman, I think you make a lot of good points. If I understand you correctly, the torso muscles are active and not passive? Indeed, it is a much better way to ride, as I did 6 hours without any arm and wrist pain. 

        #42 TomInPA

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        Posted 23 November 2011 - 01:23 PM

        The links this thread pointed to originally are dead, so this post is to quote in whole the MYRP article by Dick Franz and a follow-up comment

        Quote

        Master Yoda’s Riding Position

        By Dick Frantz



        “ Dick Frantz' Riding Position “, when its principles are applied to create certain kinds of body part relationships, turns out to apply to almost all motorcycles. I consider that any fairly healthy person, who falls within perhaps the 95th percentile of sizes, can be, or become, comfortable riding the K1200RS. Why? It was built to provide that.

        True, individual physiology, our frigging size(s), and any deficiencies (I have two very injured knees), can effect how any riding configuration is responded to, and then thought about. But, You sit on top of a Sport Bike. You sit within a K1200RS. Sport Bikes require getting weight off your butt so the rider can slide his butt inside corners to effect a different CG. Consequently, Sport Bikes induce 'weight on the handle bars'.

        Someone sitting on a K1200RS will note some ergonomic differences, and position their body as if they were riding a Sport Bike. Not so much dumb, as uninformed. They've prejudiced, rather than examined. They probably also carry forward certain muscle memories developed, not born with, from riding other conveyances, some of which can have been motorcycles. Armchairs come to mind. In short, people have learned to sit upright. It is not, in fact, a function for which the human body was designed and continued practice causes damage!

        Automobiles promulgate the seated position. Only lately have they applied several things like Lumbar Support to keep that position from killing the user. Forgive my hyperbole, but sitting up just is not good for you.

        Most motorcycles continue the promulgation. To one degree or another, they emulate Sit Upright. So much so that the term UJM, Universal Japanese Motorcycle, was partially defined by a riding position called 'Sit Up and Beg', like a puppy. This position became a mental norm. We think that's 'how a motorcycle is ridden' – huge numbers of us. Well, the important thing to remember is you learned to do it that way (remember how you became able to ride for longer and longer periods?): You can learn something else.

        The largest, developed, muscle memory is the angle between torso and thighs. This is controlled by the largest muscles involved in riding. We set that pattern, not an 'exactness' very early in American life by our caregivers Sitting Us in Chairs. Note that Southeast Asian peoples go about teaching their kids to squat, and that brings on an entirely different tight/torso relationship. In fact, that posture is much more common across all of Asia. People sitting on tatami’s, with feet and legs folded beneath their butt and thus, torsos leaned forward…

        Anyway, some things can be difficult to overcome for some folks, when they have become habits rather than cognizant, controlled responses. A great example is about leaning motorcycles in corners. The human develops a sense of danger when leaning any farther than they can do so when standing up. Huge danger signals are sent when lean angle extends much beyond the angle the neck can be bent and still keep the eyes level (20 to 30 degrees). It's our response to body signals I'm referring to that can make up our 'sense' of our comfort levels. Those things can change --- when we control them rather than the other way round.

        The K1200RS calls for, was designed to promote a canted forward riding position. Yes, very much, this was done on purpose by BMW. They knew it was required to get the K1200RS performing to the desired levels. And, very much, keep the rider comfortable for long periods of time, in the regimes where the bike was intended to be most often used (not on city streets). It all starts with a low seating position, not high, like a Sport Bike.

        BMW then set out to discover, 'what else' needed to be done to:
         

        • Add comfort to this position = provide a supporting airflow;
        • Support the position = move the pegs downward, but still allow good clearance when cornering to sport touring levels;
        • Reduce effort to maintain the position = move them forward to change the 'Support Vector'.
        This removed the need to place any weight on the handlebars. Do so if you wish, but you'll pay the price in comfort. And you'll find that you’ll make the bike feel dull and unresponsive, when compared to properly distributing your weight about the bike. 'Properly' is appropriate here in light of gaining the Performance Qualities BMW built into the bike. And, this should give some insight into why Motorcycle Magazines can't seem to find the riding qualities we owners do, when they test ride the K1200RS: They are riding it wrong, differently than it was designed to be ridden.

        The keynotes to the Riding Position are: 

        • Bend at the HIPS, not waist.
        • Maintain a SLIGHT arch to the back, not allowing it ever to 'curve'.
        • Move the butt AFT so the weight is OVER YOUR FEET.
        • Apply pressure to the feet, using the THIGH muscles, so you are sitting 'lightly'.
        • ELBOWS BENT, now DROP the hands to the bars.
        One needs to move fore and aft on the seat to make all those things happen. Except for the Hip Bend, they are not absolutes, but rather ranges. Move about until you can see all of them are happening to some extent, and no weight is being placed on the handlebars. Do this when the bike is stationary. Sit on the stopped bike. Take time to do this. Practice. Learn.

        In fact, one must teach their own body. This is called training. You'll notice all good training is done by abstract exercises, not 'just running off to the playing field and doing what you heard'.

        Learn to press down with the feet. Then, when riding, check that's what you are actually doing. You should be able to lift your butt off the seat at a second’s notice: As when knowingly approaching a severe bump in the road.

        Learn to bend at the hips. Do it both ways, and show yourself that you can operate the body differently. Be willing to touch that gas tank. Who said you shouldn't touch the gas tank? (Afraid of scratches?) Better to think, "The gas tank is my friend." It will be some day when you are six hundred miles into your ride and still two hundred miles from your destination. Or, while you are learning to ride this bike and may be only an hour or so into your ride. Your body is not yet... trained to operate that way.

        Flop your elbows. Prove you have your weight supported, mostly by your feet, and by your butt. Do it while riding too. Even after 25,000 miles on an RS I still end up leaning onto the bars somewhat and need to readjust my position.

        Many people will need to change the riding position they use for riding on the K1200RS. Understand one operates their body to do virtually anything (except things like sleep). Because Sit Up is so common in our lives, it can come to seem we are not operating the body, even to just sit. But, sit on a wooden stool for six hours and send me your impressions of what you encounter. All of it is something called ‘work’

        On bikes like the K1200RS (Aprilia Falco and ZZ-R1200 come to mind) a moderate riding position is called for, but one that is still a change for some folks. What one must do is first is change one's mind. Then, go about changing one's use of one's body. Mind Controls Body (in healthy people).

        Do it right. Take the time to sit on the stationary bike every day when you first get it (or go do a test ride). Flex, tighten, relax, and move about across a small but definite range of positions on the bike. Then, 'get it right' and without moving, flex all your body muscles, in order, from the feet toward the hands and head. Feel what that feels like when you relax each muscle, and are still holding the proper riding position. Close your eyes and feel it. Not all the muscles are fully relaxed. You are using some of them. How? How much? To do what?

        Now, in your ride, attempt to maintain that position (with appropriate changes to handle riding circumstances) for as long in your ride as you can. When you tire, stop. Get off the bike and bend, stretch, and flex all your muscles. Walk until your walking feels normal. Then get back on the bike in the Proper Position That You Checked Before Riding Off, and repeat. You'll find you ride longer and longer, and comfort grows and grows. Eventually, it will seem normal.

        One note is that if you notice 'being tense', either some 'bulk of muscles is being tight', or that you have 'a pain' or 'a tight cord' or some other sharp discomfort, do stop. You are compensating for something that has already become tired. You should have stopped sooner, and you need to develop that muscle that you tired out. Right then, it will be hard to find that muscle, so next time you start riding, do a better job before riding off of finding what muscles you really need to use to hold that position. Then ride in perhaps a less intense environment so you can pay attention to shifts in your muscles use, and particularly, Elbow Flopping, Butt Lifting, and Neck Twisting. I promise, if you are doing this correctly, pains should disappear, and not be present. But note, that even Master Yoda gets tired, his muscles get tired during a 14-hour riding day... and sometimes a six-hour riding day.

        Use your thigh muscles, they tire less and less quickly. Place your body’s weight so they can be doing the work. Even with bad knees and a bad back, I can ride this lovely performing machine from sunset to long past sunrise. And, many guys can ride longer than I do.

        Blessings to you all.

        Dick Frantz




        I can guess that if the FRONT of your thighs hurt, you were not 'doing the right thing'.

        In "The Master Yoda Riding Position", if the legs are being used properly, the muscle area MOST used is much higher, near the leg/hip joint, and along the outside of the thigh.

        Think about -- actually DO -- half or full squats. If you 'roll up on your toes', the muscle area at the front of the thigh is used raise or hold the body. If done HEELS DOWN, always in contact with the floor/ground, an entirely different set of muscles comes into play. In our normal riding position for highway riding, we place the front of our boot heels against the back of the foot pegs. With feet a little flatter (parallel to the ground) 'heel down' Leg Presses become natural. Point the toes downward and the muscle groups for 'toe stands' come into play.

        Perhaps the whole point of going into detail about the position as I did in the article IS TO BRING INTO PLAY THE LARGEST AND STRONGEST LEG MUSCLES SO AS TO DIMINISH AND WARD OFF FATIGUE.

        That is not to say we won't be able to get stronger -- and more comfortable -- as we TRAIN OUR BODIES, but rather that we get a head start on achieving comfort, AND faster progress toward achieving it -- if we use the proper muscle groups.

        The article referenced, full of word though it is, is in fact the SHORT version. 'The Position' was developed, specifically for Riding, in concert with TOP professionals from several 'body arts' disciplines, who helped refine what to do, how to learn how to do it, how to train to do it, and even how to express it. Even the short version is intended to get the reader to think about, and investigate what and how their body might work at this game. The specific 'drills' bring to the fore the very different manner of using the body, taking us away from 'habits' which might be approprite to some other actions more common to our lives, that will automatically lead to discomfort when Riding.

        If there were a subtle way to express this one point about 'where my thighs hurt', I think it would be: Toes down - Speed; Heels down - Power or Strength. The quadriceps (front of thigh) is for quick, short duration work. Those other muscles are for power and endurance.

        Best wishes

        Dick Frantz

         

        It's a good day to ride...JSNS

        #43 msflanag

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        Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:12 PM

        I recently finished an 8k mile trip with average travel days at 600 miles. What was my trick? Physical conditioning? (no) Bike mods? (no)

        Every other day, get a first class massage and hot tub with a PYT.



        Ok, I give... What is PYT? 

        #44 Fred W

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        Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:23 PM

         


        I recently finished an 8k mile trip with average travel days at 600 miles. What was my trick? Physical conditioning? (no) Bike mods? (no)

        Every other day, get a first class massage and hot tub with a PYT.



        Ok, I give... What is PYT?

         


        It is 5 years old, whatever it is...


        edit - FWIW, the original Dick Franz post from 2002 appears to alive and well here: BMWSportTouring.com thread

        To view my "broken" Photobucket images:    Firefox fix  Chrome fix

        #45 azitlies

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        Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:27 PM

         

         


        I recently finished an 8k mile trip with average travel days at 600 miles. What was my trick? Physical conditioning? (no) Bike mods? (no)

        Every other day, get a first class massage and hot tub with a PYT.



        Ok, I give... What is PYT?

         


        It is 5 years old, whatever it is...


        edit - FWIW, the original Dick Franz post from 2002 appears to alive and well here: BMWSportTouring.com thread

         


        pyt = pretty young thing... she better be older then 5 ;)

        #46 TomInPA

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        Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:42 PM

        edit - FWIW, the original Dick Franz post from 2002 appears to alive and well here: BMWSportTouring.com thread


        If I could have updated the first post in this theread so the link worked I would. Problem is, this thread gets top search on this topic using "site:fjrforum.com" and the links are a dead end.

        Otherwise...sorry for the Zombie Revival. 
        It's a good day to ride...JSNS

        #47 DaBear

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        Posted 12 August 2016 - 01:59 PM

        I did not see much discussion on two up riding but there was a pic on page 6

        http://bmwsporttouri.../0/fpart/6/vc/1

        Enjoy the pic 6mmbr.

        Page not found :(

        #48 mcatrophy

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        Posted 12 August 2016 - 02:22 PM

         

        I did not see much discussion on two up riding but there was a pic on page 6http://bmwsporttouri.../0/fpart/6/vc/1
        Enjoy the pic 6mmbr.

        Page not found :(

         


        That is nearly ten years ago. The internet isn't fixed in concrete.

        A ten second Google search brought up this page, with a picture down the page a bit. You're welcome. 

        mcatrophy
        2018 FJR1300AS - YCC-S Rules!
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        #49 Uncle Hud

        Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxygen ...

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        Posted 15 August 2016 - 12:07 PM

        DaBear posted: Page not found sad.png


        From my "welcome new member" response ... click here.

         

        <edit 5 mins later>  As I've said elsewhere on this Forum, the position is very similar to how I was taught to play defensive basketball:  bend at the hips and knees, feet shoulder width apart, arms relaxed but stretched out to block low-level passes.  Back straight, weight on the balls of your feet for quick reactions.  Head up, looking around to see how the "players" are moving.

                        You can't get into trouble in second gear.

        #50 Bill Lumberg

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        Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:18 AM

        I don't find MYRP to be a substitute for good ergonomics, but it can help you deal with bad ergonomics longer.  MYRP is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the many riders we see that relax and slump while on the bike.  At the least, slouching adversely affects the ability to maneuver the bike.  At the worst, it can jack your back up.  I met up with my brother a while back.  He on his Kawasaki Mean Streak with forward controls.  He commended how straight my back was and how it reminded him not to slouch, because when he slouched on that bike it made his back hurt.  I said hell, looking at the riding position on that bike makes my back hurt....  

         

        Hud- how long did a peach basket last back when you played?

        2018 Tour of Honor Flag triple 6.  Race you there.
         
        7M3ICO2_zpsqk1vwfup.jpg

        #51 Uncle Hud

        Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxygen ...

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        Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:08 AM

        Peach baskets were removed in June to harvest peaches.  Basketball was delayed until Labor Day.  Smartass.

         

        Hope you find a treatment for the "bitchy when not riding" syndrome.  I suffer from that, too.

                        You can't get into trouble in second gear.

        #52 jblanken64

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        Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:22 AM

        Peach baskets were removed in June to harvest peaches.  Basketball was delayed until Labor Day.  Smartass.

         

        Hope you find a treatment for the "bitchy when not riding" syndrome.  I suffer from that, too.

         

        So was Dr. Naismith a good coach? :)

        #53 Uncle Hud

        Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxygen ...

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        Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:15 AM

        Dr. Naismith ("Big Jim" to his closest buddies) was a fine man.  You do know he was Canadian, right?  (<--- not kidding)

                        You can't get into trouble in second gear.

        #54 RJAMT

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        Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:29 PM

        Dr. Naismith ("Big Jim" to his closest buddies) was a fine man.  You do know he was Canadian, right?  (<--- not kidding)

         

        No surprise since basketball is an indoor sport. ;)

        IBA #63917

         

        Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
         

        It isn't paranoia if they really are out to get you.

         

         

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