2011-11-28 KrZy8 Sick - blown head gasket?

You don't need to remove the water pipe thingy to check the other plugs. I just changed all my plugs with it in place, no problem.

As to your issue, if the oil is not foamy (water in oil), and the coolant level is fine, then I wouldn't think head gasket. You need to check one of the plugs from cylinders 2 or 3. If they look extremely rich, then the sticky stuff from the exhaust could be unburnt gas. Does the exhaust smell rich? I'm thinking it could be the 2/3 coil or bad connection to the 2/3 coil. Don't disregard that error code 12, I think it is a hint towards the problem.

Got my fingers crossed for you that it's just a bad connection. 

A coolant leak into the combustion chamber would give a "sweet" smell out of the exhaust while running. Napa has a Combustion Leak Tester (Part #BK. 700-1006) which uses a chemical that changes color from blue to yellow if there is exhaust gas in the cooling system. You need to run the engine with the radiator cap off and the engine up to normal operating temperature to use this kit. From personal experience it is accurate when the liquid turns yellow. Good luck I hope it is something other then a headgasket. 

64Y80, on 29 November 2011 - 03:14 AM, said:

+1 

Lift the plug wires by the boot, after giving them a quarter turn either direction to "break" them loose from the plug. Don't pull on the wire alone, or you'll get just the wire, although that's not the disaster it sounds like.

Absolutely no reason to pull the water pipe just for the plugs. The PAIR system will be in the way, though!

The bike won't run at all if conditions exist to set a code 12, so that may have come from something that happened some time back, turned the bike on without everything hooked up. 

Change yer blinker fluid, Don. Duh - even I know that.

And that sticky stuff... Well, you did ride with Bust back in August. Maybe he 'did' something.

 

64Y80, on 29 November 2011 - 03:14 AM, said:

Gunny! 

I did the same for Don as I did you Andy.. Pissed in the tank several times, and railed away on the tailpipe.
I shit in bears tank though. Wonder why he's still running?

I'm good like that 

kaitsdad, on 28 November 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

64Y80, on 29 November 2011 - 03:14 AM, said:

72Duster340, on 29 November 2011 - 03:18 AM, said:

wfooshee, on 29 November 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

Bearly Flying, on 28 November 2011 - 10:47 PM, said:

Of course BF, it was jizz!

dcarver, very sorry to hear about your FJR predicament! Good Luck, My Friend! 

Damn DC, What a bum deal ! You know i'm waaaaaay to dumb to hep but ya got my sympathies for sure bud ! Heres hoping for a quick easy resolution !




Bobby 

To Me, it sounds like a head gasket, but just for grins check to see if anything has blocked the airbox. Then check to see if the injector boots are all tight. 

Sad to hear. I send positive energy toward Creston.... 

Bummer, Don...check all the minor stuff first,  just maybe....good luck... 

Good luck with your fix. Anxious to hear what it was.

Gary
darksider #44 

If the head gasket was leaking in a place where it would otherwise seal a coolant passage then you would get a milky color in your oil from the coolant mixing in. It would be obvious. And you would smell coolant in the exhaust. 

It is possible for the gasket to give out between two cylinders without a breach in the coolant seal. That would cause compression problems and possibly cross firing where flame from on cylinder ignites across to the other and ignites it out of time. If this is happening it can erode the metal of the head and/or cylinder wall. 

I can't explain the sticky hand. 

dcarver, on 29 November 2011 - 07:47 AM, said:

If it had no signal from the crankshaft sensor, it would have no clue when to fire the plugs, since there's no mechanical distributor. Won't run without that sensor. If you turned on the bike with it unplugged you'd set the code. (It might not set till you tried to crank, but I think it would set with power on.) It wouldn't be an intermittent problem, I don't think.

Here's a shot I took some time back, documenting my AVCC install. The wire with the red band is one of the plug wires, and you can see another one above it headed over to the left side of the engine. Don't know how that compares with yours. Obviously the PAIR stuff is still there.

Read through the thread, Don. A sticky hand does not a blown head gasket make. 

I'd be looking for something else, and more clues. Watch that Prof. Plum! 

Geezer, on 29 November 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

Would the milky oil be obvious via the site window?

wfooshee, on 29 November 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

It looks like your plug wires are over the inlet water pipe. Mine are under, limiting them of service loop. I'll look more soon, hopefully tonight. 

Fred W, on 29 November 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

Will do. Any idea why so suddenly sticky?  

re: crank sensor. 

I managed to crimp the lead from the crank sensor under the crank/timing chain cover whilst doing the timing chain adjuster. Ran, but ran like sh!t. I believe it is a shielded cable (like a guitar or microphone cable). Might be worth checking along the cable for damage to it. 

No sticky stuff on my hands, tho'; you're on yer own there. 

Carl 

dcarver, on 29 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

Masturbation refers to sexual stimulation of a person's own genitals, usually to the point of orgasm.^[1] The stimulation can be performed manually, by use of objects or tools, or by some combination of these methods.^[2] Masturbation is a common form of autoeroticism. 

Don

I would start by trying to isolate the problem. Check the spark, fuel pressure, compression. If all that checks out you may want to put new plugs in then look for a vacuum leak (check to make sure the rubber caps used for syncing are intact). Actually check the caps first, and all the vacuum lines like the one for the IAP or Map sensor.

Just a few ideas. 

Bustanut joker, on 29 November 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

Thanks, Dr. Ruth!

 beemerdons, on 29 November 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:

Pffft...Bust knows more about masturbation than any other human alive. Hell, he probably wrote that quote for Wikipedia. He is a master-masturbator. 

Dude you are SO assfuked next time I see You.. 

More testing tonight -

• No vacuum leaks in Audiovox accumulator 'circuit'
• Fuel rail & injectors tight no vacuum leaks
• Diag's all run sat - <clicky>
• Pulled plugs <you guys were right, the caps *can* be removed, but why the heck didn't mamayamma put another 10 mm lead length in?> and all plugs fired fine
• Plugs 1 and 2 came out 'wet' and not smelling like gasoline wet

On to the pix - 
Oil sight glass - overfull, first indication. I never fill past top mark.


Frothy


Compared to Wabs


Diagnostic code results - <clicky>

..and finally, spark plugs. Note that cyl 1 & 2 were much nosier, with popping, and exhaust flow at left pipe irregular and compared to 3 and 4, right pipe.


Star pattern, 1-2-3-4 with 1 at 0900 position.


#2


#3 nice and as should be


#4 good looking to


#1 at top, #2 at bottom


Same orientation


Was working inside the shop tonight, not outside. Did my 'sniff' test between Wabs and CrZy8, CrZy8 definitively has sweet smell. Even saturated the shop. 

I've contacted SuperTech Ivan at Hidden Power and he'll have the bike in the next day or two.

<Unless you can think of a better outcome?> 

My brother ....................I think you are fucked.

This sucks balls bad! Fuk man.. fuk fukity fuk fuk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! 

Bustanut joker, on 29 November 2011 - 07:45 PM, said:

A head gasket doesn't scare me. I'm only ~10k away from 150k, she's given good service. No complaints. If the head has damage, then that's another story. 

So you think it's a blown head gasket too? 

Chocolate milk in the crankcase is the #1 symptom. 

You, Sir, have a happy gasket. But not in a good way. 

Fook.

Oh yeah - drain the oil asap. Get the water out of the case. 

kaitsdad, on 29 November 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

Will do tomorrow. I'm past my beddie-bye time right now..  

Hal - thanks for the analysis / help. I had just switched over to Napa synthetic, and thought, *maybe* that look was normal as compared to dino oil. But when I looked at Wabs oil... 

Look at it this way: if you're gonna get coolant in the oil, a fault at the head gasket is the best way to have it happen. . . . 

Sorry Don. My questions and your answers via pix, have confirmed to me your head gasket launched. A classic blown HG is water in the oil makeing it bubbily/foamy looking, and a murkey light chocolate color like yours. Water has started entering your crank case and it's getting higher.

Also that one plug looks mighty slimey, confirming the no power lugging along on coolant.

Hopefully it's only the head gasket and not a water jacket issue that's cracked or something where the motor is no bueno.

Sorry bud. 

A quick story on my methodology.
We were going out water skiing using a neighbors boat, he was driving. The boat had no power and just dogging it. We opened ‘er up and still was not doing well, thinking it was just lugged form the winter storage (where we were they must winterize the boat). We came to a stop and killed it. We tried restarting it and it wouldn’t go. We pulled the air cleaner and it was covered in that light chocolaty goo. We thought WTF! We then pulled the dip stick it was covered in the same goo and the dip stick was total covered all the way to the top with the goo. Upon closer inspection we could see the water beading up on the oil. The breathers etc all filled with goo. It ingested so much water it blew it out every orifice. At that point we knew it was done for. The local mechanic confirmed a cracked block, due to poor winterizing.

BTW - Is this the first blown head gasket on the forum? 

wfooshee, on 29 November 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

Wfoo - you also think it's a head gasket? How else could you get water in oil? Blown case? 

dcarver, on 29 November 2011 - 08:21 PM, said:

Yes. See my boat story above. A head gasket is easier, a cracked water jacket is a new to you motor. Either way you must pull the head first, that will tell you what's up next, a new head gasket or more exploratory surgery.  

Sorry my brother. 

Sadly, I agree that the oil showing in your sight glass is classic for coolant contamination.
The quicker you can get that mix out of the engine/gearbox, the better...
Sorry for your troubles, my friend! 
Don 

Bummer extraordinaire! 

Too bad Don...as previously mentioned, if the head isn't damaged it's fixable.

Good luck!

--G 

You sure have a great attitude for a guy with a Gen II lemon.

I'll stay tuned for the next chapter of the ongoing saga.... 

Hopefully it is a bad head gasket; the alternative is a cracked block. Best of luck for a successful solution. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but was not the head recently worked on just before your ride out to NERDS? I know the bike was working fine during that trip but with a new head gasket I don't see how the gasket failed over this short of a time frame. A defective gasket or an error in re-assembly would have shown up earlier I would think.
When the head does get removed carefully check both the block deck and the head for warp-age. A cracked block however would make this all academic. 
Sorry that you are having these issues Don. 

I'll add my sorrow for your troubles, and best wishes for a reasonable ix Don. 

I hope you learned your lesson -- never let Bust pee in your tank or molest your exhaust. 

It is sounding like a HG. If oil is getting higher it must be a pretty good leak, and should see coolant level dropping. Also if the coolant is filling cylinders overnight then it should crank over hard in the morning, AKA hydro-locking.

Aside from the oil being milky I've seen stuck injectors do the same thing. Flooding the cyl and raising oil level.

Usually coolant leaking into a cyl will actually steam clean the plug, and they will come out looking new. Perhaps the leak is so bad the cyl can't fire at all, therefore not cleaning it. don't know.

good luck. 

yamafitter, on 30 November 2011 - 02:27 AM, said:

yamafitter, that's true, head was off; in 2007. Prolly about 100K+ ago. Fun and Games with Carbon Buildup. If my facts are wrong, Don please correct me. 

Sorry to hear about this Don.

Bustanut joker, on 29 November 2011 - 06:34 PM, said:

So what else is new, Bust!

Don, it's the head gasket!!! 

I do believe it is a first here Simon. Man that really sucks Don.

Toecutter, on 29 November 2011 - 11:55 PM, said:

Holy Cow! Good to see you out and about posting. You have been awfully quiet for a long time. 

Dang, Don. Sorry to hear this. 

You didn't by chance decide to run a car tire recently, did you??

Just trying to think of all possible causes....

Sorry, and hope it is just the head gasket. 

yamafitter, on 30 November 2011 - 02:27 AM, said:

Bill, 

I'm sure Don will be along to report on this, but my recollection is that they determined that his "knocking" noise just before NERDS was from carbon buildup on the pistons. I think the "fix" was just running a bunch of Ring Free through it and the knocking went away. After that, he did run the bike a whole bunch of miles out to Vermont and back via the PNW, so it doesn't seem that it would be directly related, but I wonder if the apparent headgasket failure is related to all of that piston knocking on carbon that happened back then.

PS - Sorry to hear about the head gasket, Don. Hopefully that is all it is. I guess the good news is that since you'll have that head off you can really see how much carbon buildup remains. I forget now, did you (or whoever was working on the bike) ever scope the combustion chambers through the plug holes back then? 

SkooterG, on 30 November 2011 - 07:21 AM, said:

Thank you! Been too busy with other things, mostly bicycle 3 short hours a day when I'm not at work. Takes away from internet time. Getting ready to do my second annual Climb to Kaiser. Finished last year, but not strong. Looking to knock at least an hour off my time this year. The ultimate goal is to be the first guy my age or older to finish, but for now, I'd love to just finish ahead of the girls...

Hey Don,
If the head is removed, at least on a Gen I, you're supposed to use new bolts to put it back on. Did that happen? The head might have gotten loose. You already had a head gasket problem? I see why you like Harleys... 

SkooterG, on 30 November 2011 - 07:21 AM, said:

I thought, who is posting using TC's address.