2015-08-04 KrZy8 No Start

Twice now, over 3 weeks... ignition on, gauges sweep, fuel pump pumps. Starter spins nicely. Engine catches, runs for maybe .5 to 1 second, then dies.

 

Replaced battery.

 

Again this morning.. but with new battery, after 5 or 6 times it fired and ran great.

 

Any ideas?

 

TIA

 

dcarver

Starting in gear or in neutral?
Clutch pulled or not?
Side stand up or down?
Did display blank out during cranking?
Any diagnostic codes thrown?

A bit more info, please. 

It's the loose screw above the seat....

Older fuel with corn juice phase separation?  Ounce or two of Seafoam.

It's the loose screw above the seat....

^^ this, definitely this! 

corn.

Fast Starter Syndrome? 

Hey Don you are not getting much help are you?  Don't expect any from me.

 Starting in gear or in neutral? Neutral
Clutch pulled or not? Not pulled in
Side stand up or down? Side stand up - on center stand
Did display blank out during cranking? No. No clock reset. >9 vdc on radar detector
Any diagnostic codes thrown? No codes thrown.

A bit more info, please.

 

Probably not gas.. many tanks have been used in between symptoms. hmmm..  Maybe the same station with bad tanks?

Doesn't sound like gas to me. Since you are starting in neutral, there is no issue with sidestand or clutch interlocks. Panel didn't reset so battery is unlikely to be the problem. I would still probably make sure that the battery terminals are tight. Hopefully the fuel pump is OK. Might be worth checking to make sure that the plug is tight and not corroded.

The only other thing I can think of is the possibility of a glitch in the kill switch. I would at least cycle it a few times; maybe take it apart and clean it up. Also make sure that the plug to the ECU is seated properly and there is no corrosion or dirt in it.

Good luck! 

Do diagnostic codes auto show on the display if thrown or does one have to go looking? I assume that the code would show on the display automagically?

 

Fuel pp is original..

 

ECU connector.. good idea and kill switch too. I know that my ecu connector no longe

r has rubber gasket...

Does the Gen 2 have the same type of "Big White Plug" under the tank?  To me it kind of sounds like a intermittent spark issue.  My spark was really week and my fan wasn't work quite right, So after studying the schematics, I found that plug, cleaned each prong and greased it up, and VIOLA!  Fan worked and spark was "Strong Like Bull!"

 

But, not sure if this applies to Gen 2

 

(I am not an actual Lawyer, but a paid spokesman/client...)

 

Carl

"Does the Gen 2 have the same type of "Big White Plug" under the tank?"

 

It has something like it up front, connecting the main harness to the faring sub harness. It locates behind the radiator filler cap. There's another spot to check on the '06 and '07 bikes, the multi relay block under/between the headlights. An intermittent connection can cause grief. Yamaha, in it's infinite wisdom, cheapened out on us and did not use a sealed connector at that spot - check for oxidation on the pins.

 

Good luck, happy hunting!

 

Brodie

Almost a no start leaving work. Hmm, sure runs strong after it starts though. How strong? Strong as ever. Full pull to redline, 1st to 2nd wheelie, yep, no problem with FI or fuel delivery, compression. She runs hard.

 

So then, well, I 'fixed' it. Now it won't even turn over the starter motor. How did I fix it?

 

Simple. Stress test.

 

Start, kill, start, kill, start, kill.

 

I've been thinking the starter has been a tad bit slower than normal.. not much, just a bit. Kinda like a gen 1 cranking.  And that when releasing the start button things were a tad off, but not sure what.

 

So, additional stress test.

 

Left the starter button on just a bit after cranking and starting.. like maybe .2 seconds. And the engine instantly died. 

 

Now, hitting the start button I can hear the 'Brodie Relay' click in.. and the fuel pp, but no starter noise or action. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Ground at engine case is good.

 

Me thinks the BR is bad. And I just happen to have another one handy.   

 

...but that will be for later, had to get Wabs ready for work action tomorrow. 

 

KrZy8 can sit while Wabs get the nod. 

 

Relief hitter to the plate please!

 

Edit - no diagnostic codes either.

 

 Edit Edit - By NOOOOOO way does this post infer that Brodie's work on the ignition switch relay harness is faulty. That relay has been in-service, under the tank, on top of the valve cover (hot n' hostile environment) for over, well, what now.. 3 years?) And all this is ASSuming it's the relay. Just wanted to be sure no thinks I'm flaming my good bud 'B.  

Ignition switch has two circuits that have to stay connected. One is the full current draw of the ignition system, and the other connects the output of the sidestand/neutral monitor of the starter interlock to the ECU. If that circuit interrupts, the bike dies, just as if the sidestand were put down in gear.. On my Gen-I, if you crank with that circuit interrupted, you get a code 19, but it doesn't set a code just by being disconnected; only when cranking disconnected.

 

That's not the one that usually goes bad, because it has a VERY low electrical load. Still, it can fail, as it has on my bike. I don't think it's bypassed by the Brodie kit, but I'm not sure.

That second side of the ignition switch will kill the bike without throwing any codes. It only throws a code if it's disconnected while cranking. (And it WILL crank if disconnected, because the switch is behind all the starter interlock stuff, which has already given its OK.) So check it out, There are two connectors from the ignition switch. Disconnect them both. Put an ohmmeter across the one with the little wires. Turn the key on. Should have continuity. Wiggle the key without turning it off. Should not see the continuity flicker any. If you see it drop and come back, you've got a crummy connection in the key switch.

I still haven't worked out in my mind why that line needs to be interrupted by the ignition switch. It's not a safety thing, that's all handled by the sidestand and other interlocks. Maybe the connected ground would set up a current drain in the ECU that can kill the battery.